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Pride: An open reply
Written by Gavin McGuren & Daniel Smith
Tuesday, 19 January 2010 06:52

Pride Treasurer Andrew Baietta’s open letter in the January edition of Out in Perth raised concerns about the effect that events staged by GAYinWA have on the performance of Pride events.

We understand that we are not alone in being blamed by Mr Baietta for Pride’s financial woes – in a comment left on one of our blogs, he blames his fellow committee members as well.  That said, we can only answer for ourselves and given that Out in Perth does not have a letters page or a forum for community members to discuss issues, our reply takes the form of this post.

Given that Out in Perth did not give us the opportunity to include a response to Mr Baietta’s letter, which was disappointing (but not surprising), given the highly targeted comments in the letter and the questions Mr Baietta raises about our motives and integrity, we provide the following as a response.

Interestingly, nobody from the Pride committee has ever raised concern over our events with us, nor have they ever knocked back the cheques we have handed them for funds raised at our events, which they have even been known to attend and request free drinks at from time to time.

GAYinWA has donated $4,000 to Loton Park Tennis Club from the two Love All events staged

That said, we understand that we might be an easy target if committee members are seeking someone else to blame for the more than $70,000 turnaround in Pride’s financial performance in 2009, with the organisation set to record a loss of approximately $35,000 (subject to audit).  We understand that we are not popular in some sections of the community for questioning the relevance and future of the Pride Parade, but we don’t shy away from leading a debate that has to be had.

If Mr Baietta read our discussion paper closely, he will have noted that we believe that the Parade needs to continue because of the important role it plays for young people in our community.  However, we believe that a change of format is necessary if the long-term decline in participant and spectator numbers is to be arrested. Interestingly enough, the options we ourselves raised for the future of the parade were clearly discussed at the recent Pride forum, and reported as "news" in Out in Perth.

In his letter, Mr Baietta refers to our observations that Parade spectator and participant numbers have declined over time.  He uses his own observation that Parade participant numbers increased slightly in 2009 (on the back of free entry in the Parade’s 20th year) and dismisses our views, and the views of many within the community, that the Parade needs to change.  In addition, his comments potentially lead readers to conclude that by expressing these views about the Parade, we are seeking to undermine Pride events to the benefit of events that we stage.  In effect, Mr Baietta is seeking to discredit the discussion we are leading about the Parade by discrediting us.

Mr Baietta raises questions about whether life members of Pride WA should be permitted to stage events that he contends compete with Pride events and make it harder for Pride to make ends meet.  This is consistent with a comment he left on one of our blogs a few days ago, in which he says that it is “appalling” that we stage events.  We would be interested in the views of our readers on this topic.  But first, we would like to give you a little bit of background on GAYinWA, because we feel that we are sometimes unfairly misrepresented.

GAYinWA was started in September 2006 as a news web site.  At the time, there was no regularly published LGBT newspaper in Perth, with Out in Perth not having been published for months.  GAYinWA was incorporated as a small business with five individual shareholders including: Gavin McGuren, who was a co-founder of Pride, Gay & Lesbian Equality and WA's first gay newspaper, the Westside Observer (forerunner to Out in Perth), which he edited for 13 years; Daniel Smith, a former long time committee member and co-president of Pride WA, Fiona Wong, a former long-time Pride WA committee member and volunteer and Nigel Etherington, a long time community photo-journalist.  Both Gavin and Daniel are Pride life members.  None of us is employed by GAYinWA and we effectively work as volunteers within our own business.

Throughout 2007, we focused on developing our web site and we realised some revenue through online advertising.  Heading into 2008, we decided to stage events and made a conscious decision to stage all of our events well clear of the Pride Festival, so as to offer our community opportunities to be entertained and to socialise throughout the year and so as not to compete with Pride events.  We also made a conscious decision that we would contribute part proceeds from all of our events to local community groups.

GAYinWA has donated more than $2,500 to GLCS from the two GlamFest Gay & Lesbian Film Festivals staged to date.

In March 2008, we launched Love All at Loton Park Tennis Club, which was an outdoor food and music event.  In its debut year, this event did not make a profit, but GAYinWA donated $1,000 to Loton Park.  In April 2008, we launched the GlamFest Gay & Lesbian Film Festival in partnership with Melbourne Queer Film Festival.  In its debut year, GlamFest performed well and we were able to donate $1,265 to Gay & Lesbian Community Services (GLCS).  In October 2008, we staged the Great Gay & Lesbian Debate as a part of the Pride Festival and were able to donate $700 to the GLBTI Retirement Association (GRAI).

In December 2008, we staged Christmas deLuxe at Luxe Bar and we donated $900 to Pride WA.  In January 2009, we sponsored the play Vincent and we donated a further $700 to Pride WA.  In February 2009, we again staged Love All at Loton Park and, despite attendances increasing, the event again did not make a profit.  However, given Loton Park’s precarious financial position at the time, we donated $3,000 to Loton Park.  In April 2009, we again staged GlamFest and we again raised more than $1,200 for GLCS.  In July, we launched the Cocktails & Girls cocktails night for lesbians and their friends, with Laura Foster (initially as a one-off event) and we have raised more than $1,500 for cancer research, as well as donating a further $300 to Pride WA.  In October, we again staged the Great Gay & Lesbian Debate, with GRAI raising about $1,000. And, in December 2009, we staged Christmas deluxe again, raising $500 for GLCS.

In December 2008, we launched WAX Magazine in partnership with Evolution Publishing.  Unfortunately, it was the wrong time to launch a magazine and, given all the work we were putting into our events, we over-committed ourselves and we had to make the difficult decision to discontinue this venture.

Going forward, we have a summertime debate scheduled for 21st February, which will also raise funds for a local community group, GlamFest scheduled for April and we are soon to make some announcements regarding Love All.

Because we are a business and not a community group, we understand that it is easy for people to point the finger at us and question our motives. (Interestingly the motives of other business, gay and straight, that target the community are not questioned.)  Given we are spending a lot of time talking about Pride’s financial performance, we are quite happy to share ours with the community as well.  Since our establishment in 2006, we have made a loss of approximately $10,000 and the donations we have given to community groups, including Pride WA, have come out of our own pockets.  Unlike Pride, we are a business and, as such, we are not eligible to receive the more than $65,000 in local and State Government funding that Pride receives to underwrite its core events.  We have to earn every dollar we spend and we have to watch our expenses.  This is the first time that we have shared this information with the community because we haven’t viewed it as being important – it is our way of making a contribution to the community.  However, given that we are now accused by Pride’s Treasurer of staging events that damage the performance of Pride’s events and of doing this for “self gain” we feel the discussion needs to be balanced with this information.

It is also worth noting that we have never received a thankyou letter from Pride for the contributions we have made.  We have also received negligible coverage of our numerous donations to local community groups in Out in Perth, with this perhaps contributing to the fact that the reality of GAYinWA is somewhat different to the perception of some.

In 2009, GAYinWA donated $1,900 from its events to Pride WA, including $900 from christmas deLuxe

So... Pride suffered a turnaround in its financial performance of $70,000 in 2009 and recorded a loss of about $35,000.  Given Pride achieved new sponsorship of $4,000 from Heathway in 2009 and achieved savings of $6,000 by changing the way it performed its book-keeping and administrative functions, the deterioration in the financial performance of Pride’s events in 2009 is more like $80,000.  Given the amount of space Mr Baietta dedicated in his open letter to the impact of Pride life members staging events, you would think that this was the main factor behind Pride’s problems.  While the claim is not supported by the comments of either Pride co-president, we can understand the logic behind Mr Baietta thinking that Cocktails & Girls may impact on Pride’s monthly Women’s Sundowner.  However, we think it patronising and ludicrous if Mr Baietta thinks that Perth lesbians, numbering apparently just a few hundred, only leave the house once a month or that all lesbians like hanging out with only other lesbians and attending the same venue.  Plus, given Pride’s women’s sundowner historically only raises about $600 a month, we find it difficult to believe that the total impact of Cocktails & Girls, or the three times the Pride committee changed the sundowner's venue in 2009, could amount to much more than $1,000 – a tiny fraction of Pride’s financial deterioration.

It is similarly ludicrous if Mr Baietta thinks that GAYinWA staging Love All in February damages Fairday in September, or GAYinWA staging GlamFest in April damages the Pride film festival in October.  In fact, in his comments on our blogs, Mr Baietta has not yet acknowledged that, in the year that GlamFest debuted at Astor Cinemas, Pride staged its most successful and well attended film festival ever, just six months later, at Cinema Paradiso, with Kieran Bycroft putting together an amazing programme.

In a comment on one of our recent blogs, Mr Baietta refers to our donations to Pride as “token.” It might be true that our total cash donation of $1,900 in 2009 might be small when compared with the $70,000 deterioration in Pride’s net revenue in 2009 or its $35,000 loss.  However, we think our contribution significant, particularly when you consider we also made a loss during that time and when you consider that the only business to donate more cash to Pride WA during the same period was Connections Nightclub.  In fact, V-Energy’s sponsorship in 2008, the loss of which Pride attributed much of its ills to in the recent Sunday Times article, amounted to only $3,000.  Token indeed.

In his open letter, Mr Baietta implies that GAYinWA should not stage the events we currently stage and that this will help Pride with its financial problems.  Absolute nonsense.  Should the WA AIDS Council cancel StyleAID because Pride now stages a Ball, or Sunset Coasters discontinue, because Pride has resurrected Fruits in Suits?  Of course they shouldn’t – and nor should we stop doing what we are doing simply because Pride has had a bad year and made poor decisions.

In the upcoming community forum and Pride Annual General Meeting, we will be happy to address GAYinWA’s role in the community.  However, we hope this discussion isn’t used as a distraction from the real questions, such as why 1,000 people abandoned Fairday last year, why 500 people less people attended the party, why Pride realised a $70,000 deterioration in net revenue in just one year and what format the Parade should take in the future.  We will also assume that, if GAYinWA, as a business that is a net contributor to Pride WA, is to be subject to such scrutiny, then we will also have an open and frank discussion about those businesses that are net beneficiaries of Pride WA and the events it stages.

Our experience, both during the time we served on Pride committees and sub-committees, and during the time that others have done the heavy lifting, is that Pride is at its best when it focuses on its core events.  Historically, in the years that Pride returns a profit, the committee of the day has prioritised working hard to ensure Fairday, the Parade and the Party are all successes.  In the years that it has returned losses, it has often been because committees have become overambitious, often with good intentions, and committed to new events and expenditure.  Our view is that Pride has a bright future if it listens to the community, reshapes its core events to make them more reflective of contemporary community needs and then focuses on those events, without getting distracted.  With Pride rarely having a committee that is more than half full, it is ridiculous for anyone to claim the answer to its problems is for other organisations to stop staging events and for Pride to become the only organiser of events for LGBT Western Australians.

People and organisations with the resources, passion, ideas and energy to stage new events for our community should be welcomed and supported, not criticised - particularly if they are willing to take on the financial risk themselves and especially when they are willing to donate their profits to local community groups.

Have we got it wrong?

Comments (23)
  • Kieran Bycroft  - CBF
    Who can be bothered reading this entire article?

    And when such articles are written, who wants to volunteer to run Pride?

    I think it's a justifiable question to ask who should benefit if Pride does go under...

    You've both been on the Pride committee, and both made mistakes during your tenures (as have I).

    So why don't we all try to make it a less personal and bitchy and focus on the point raised in the final paragraph of your last blog (if anyone was still reading...)

    That the current Pride model of volunteers and values is not working, and the members need to discuss the possibilities for a new one.
  • Gavin McGuren
    There is nothing "personal" or "bitchfest" about what we've written. A person, Andrew Baietta, the Treasurer of Pride, wrote an open letter that was published in Out in Perth attributing Pride's financial woes to us. In doing so he did not address a single other issue about Pride's losses this year, and furthermore he failed to identify a single GAYinWA event and point to how it contributed to Pride's financial situation.

    We can't attribute Andrew's opinions to anyone else as we have no idea whether that is the view of the rest of the Pride committee. Out in Perth does not print letters to the editor and did not have the professional courtesy to invite us to respond, so we responded here, where everyone including Andrew is free to disagree and have their comments published. We think it's perfectly reasonable to discuss who may benefit if Pride collapses, but we also think it fair that those accused of wishing to benefit from such a thing should be able to defend themselves. Do you not agree?

    In regard to your last point, yes, that's what we've been saying for some time and we have been attacked mercilessly for it by those who personalise the issue.
  • Scott  - That is crap!
    Kieran, that is crap. Andrew has used the authority of his position to put a letter in OUT and, failing to talk abou any other reason for Pride's loss, singled out GAY in WA, identifying Gavin and Daniel in all but name. He didn't ask who benefits if Pride goes down, he said Gavin and Daniel were the reason Pride was going down. I wonder who would benefit if GAY in WA went down? Why does it always have to be one or the other? You're either with us or agin us? Surely we are better than that.
  • Peggy  - mistakes? what mistakes?!?!
    Yes, everybody makes mistakes, but the only mistake Andrew has admitted to so far is purchasing merchandise and he blamed everybody else on the committee for that. Everything else is GAYinWA's fault it seems. All $70,000 apparently.
  • Jayson P  - Who can be bothered?
    Obviously lots of people including you Kieran have been bothered reading the article from beginning to end. And at least now they have both sides of the story. After seeing this I went out and picked up a copy of Out and what they've said is true. Andrew B attacks them without naming them and there is no page for letters to the editor. There's nothing "personal" in the post here which is more than can be said for some of the comments.
  • Patrick Coward  - Bitch-fest or Stare-down?
    Sounds like a public bitch-fest to me. If you've been in business for four years and haven't made a cent and Pride's struggling against your competition why don't you wind-up? Or are you waiting for them to wind up first? Is it a stare-down as well as a bitch fest?

    Perth is tiny. Two decades of Entrepreneurial adventure have proven one thing: There is only room for One Gay Pub, One Gay Nightclub, One Gay Publication, and One Gay Umbrella Group.

    Who will blink first?
  • Daniel Smith  - Which GAYinWA events contributed to Pride's loss a
    Patrick, people go into business for different reasons and we have gone into business because we think this a positive vehicle to make a contribution to our community. We stay in business because we dream that one day, Perth will get past the one petrol station, one pub and a post office mentality that you talk about. We understand we are in for a long slog, but we are encouraged by the fact that the Sunset Coasters can co-exist with Fruits in Suits as a monthly sundowner for professional men and that, despite what Andrew has written in Out in Perth and on this site, both Cocktails & Girls and the Women's Sundowner both get a good turnout every month.

    That said, given that the lion's share of Pride's losses appear attributable to a collapse in attendances at both Fairday and the Party and to new spending decisions by the committee, we would be happy to review any event we are staging if people can demonstrate how we have impacted on these factors.

    Anybody?
  • Patrick Coward  - Dear Daniel
    Dear Daniel

    Of course it is entirely impossible to prove that one organisation's diminished numbers are the result of another's growing success but what is entirely certain is that the community as a whole would be much better off if your two organisations were working together instead of engaging in undignified public squabbling. No matter what you say there isn't room for you both whilever your product continues to so closely mimic theirs. One of you will have to change direction or one of you will have to fold. Time will bear this out. In the end it will all depend on who can hang on the longest.

    Patrick
  • Daniel Smith
    Patrick, we don't stage a Parade, a Fairday or a dance party, yet all of these Pride events appear to be in decline and this appears to be the major reason for Pride's financial issues. As I said, if anybody can provide a clear case as to how anything we are doing has contributed to this, we would be happy to review what we are doing. If anybody can tell us why, in 2008, our GlamFest film festival didn't affect attendances at the Pride film festival, but in 2009, it did, then I am interested in hearing.
  • Jayson P
    So one of the fastest growing places in Australia should adopt a small country town mentality and stay the same forever? How forward thinking. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Unless Andrew B and Pride can show exactly how any Gayinwa event has led to losses for Pride there is no substance to your argument.
  • Jamie  - Need to focus on the bigger picture....
    While it is important to understand the details behind why things aren't working, let's make sure we don't loose site of the bigger picture issues and how these may best be addressed into the future.
  • Brendon  - I read it
    I actually thought it was quite interesting and I read the complete article.

    Can I suggest that committee members of Pride read all the information available before making any further decisions on events and what the public is wanting from the organisation!
  • James
    I think the blog raises some really valid points... Why chase after gay in wa and blame them for everything when there are other private organisations that directly benefit from the events staged by Pride.

    It's terrible to hear that Pride is in financial difficulties again. let's hope that they can get out of this mess...

    Maybe someone should speak to New Mardi Gras and ask what they did to turn Mardi Gras around.
  • Unknown
    There seems to be an ever growing rift between GAYinWA and Pride which may result from legitimate opposing beliefs and ideas (or simply a personality clash) but what should be a common thread between the two, of their support for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community locally, often seems to be missing to the outsider looking in.

    As someone who tries to be avidly involved with all areas & events within the community - supporting what I believe in rather then any one particular area or community group, but essentially what interests me - I find it strange and also concerning that GAYinWA can post what seems such a personalised public and malicious attack on a member of a community organisation.

    I believe that Pride should indeed listen to the communities ideas and suggestions relating to the events it holds, and the way in which both annual events and the more frequent Pride supported events are marketed and operated, but I also believe ‘the community’ does not just blog on the GAYinWA website (or indeed revolve around it)

    Running a community organisation such as Pride with a committee of volunteers who may not have had a lot of dealings with public & community politics, or indeed creating, hosting and operating events will of course encounter mistakes and misjudgements, but as a ‘community’ organisation it deserves to be supported by all businesses, outlets and members of the public.

    To me, Mr Baietta seemed as if he was using his letter as an outlet to settle rumours on Pride’s financial position and clear the air regarding some stats on last years events whilst also promoting the second public forum held in February, of which I believe GAYinWA would be in favour of?

    Yet GAYinWA seem to use their rebuttal blog, circulated to their entire database, as a way to point out each successful event and highlight of GAYinWA’s recent past, provide an attack on Mr Baietta’s personal views and Prides financial position whilst contradicting itself by then stating that it thinks Pride has a bright future!?! Perhaps Mr McGuren and Mr Smiths vision of its bright future is that of when they can again take it over for themselves?

    I believe that anyone who may want to host or promote events that support our community should indeed be welcomed by all, but perhaps some individuals or organisations negative reactions to these events may be due to the way in which these businesses act on a day to day basis.

    A community should share the same identity, beliefs, triumphs, risks and losses - no matter what.

    A community should bind together and support those that support their own.

    Even though GAYinWA refers to itself a business and not a community group, its role in the community should be based on the same ideals and not that of pointing the blame or exposing downfalls, whilst gloating on their own successes… So yes GAYinWA, I think you have got it wrong.
  • Daniel Smith  - Agree and disagree
    Unknown, I both agree with you and disagree.

    I disagree with you over the content of Mr Baietta's letter. While it does all of the things you mention, half of it is devoted to attributing Pride's financial problems to us. It even talks about "certain life members", which most readers would assume to be Gavin, Laura Foster and I. This letter was printed in a publication that claims to have a readership of 35,000 people. Is that not a public attack? Does it not entitle us to a public reply, especially given that we were not given the opportunity to provide a response by OIP?

    I disagree that our comments are a personal attack. At no time, in any of our blog postings, have we ever attributed Pride's loss or any individual decisions to Andrew Baietta. However, we have attributed his attack on us to him, because you can read it in black and white in Out in Perth, and provided responses to the points raised by him.

    I agree that we should all be pulling in the same direction and seeking to achieve the same things. I believe we actually are all after the same thing and that is to make WA a better place to live for LGBT people, whether it is by improving our rights or giving us more outlets to socialise and express ourselves. However, I believe there is a space for GAYinWA and a number of community groups, small businesses and individual enterprises to play a role in providing events and services for our community. For a range of personal and commercial reasons, some people do not share this belief.

    I understand that, by expressing views on Pride and other topics, generating debate and publishing reader comments, no matter how strong they are or whether they support us or disagree with us, it can appear as if we are being divisive, negative or "stirring trouble." However, if Out in Perth still published letters to the editor or provided an un-moderated forum for discussion of these issues, my guess is that you would see the same debate played out in that publication and we wouldn't look as divisive to you as we currently do.

    A few months ago, we blogged that Pride needed to change the way it did things or face a bleak future and we called for a community forum to be staged (read the recommendations in our discussion paper). At that time, we were slammed for being negative. Now, in light of the collapse in Fairday and Party numbers, most people are saying that Pride needs to change the way it does things.

    In relation to your suggestion that Gavin and I somehow want to run Pride again, you have missed the point of GAYinWA entirely. We have done our tours of duty, we have attended endless Committee meetings, worked endless Fairday bars and pulled all-nighters prior to too many Pride parties to count. We don't want to run Fairday, a Parade, or a dance party. All we want to do is run a few complementary events to Pride, so that gay and lesbian folk in WA have things to do all year around. Is that so bad?

    In relation to your suggestion that we were promoting past glories in our blog posting, our intention was not to gloat over Pride's problems, but to highlight the support we have given Pride and other community groups during this time - information that invariably always gets left out of discussions in which we are accused of not supporting Pride or acting in ways that damage their events.
  • annie on
    so when will we have the accounts made available from daniel smith's tenure as pride president. i mean, if we're dealing in transparency here, why not map the financial lose of pride back a few years... oh wait, we can't... apparently the accounts were lost from when daniel was pride president. hmmm... funny that.


  • Daniel Smith
    Hi Annie. If you log in the Pride members' area and go to the documents section, you will find that Pride's annual reports can be downloaded for the 2003, 2004 and 2005 years - the three years that I was Co-President. When you read them, you will find a mix of profits and losses, along with a narrative outlining the reasons for each. I don't recall the committees of the day blaming anybody else when we incurred losses. You will also note that no annual report has been published on the Pride site since I left.

    If Pride has lost copies of any accounts from my period, they know that they can contact the auditors from that period. If they don't know who the auditors are, I would be happy to tell them. You many be interested to know that I introduced the requirement to have Pride's accounts audited during my time as co-president.

    You should also note that, at no time, have we attributed any blame to any committee member for Pride's current losses, unlike Andrew, who has fingered us. We, as it appears you do, understand that it is always difficult to make ends meet and meet community expectations at the same time. From my experience at Pride and watching since, I believe the solution is for Pride to identify the core events the community wants staged and that either have an established demand or that they can get government funding to underwrite, such as Fairday, the Parade and Party, and focus on these.

    If you can't get access to Pride's member area, you will either need to join Pride or get your login details sent to you =)
  • Anony Mouse  - Will we ever change/learn?
    The Perth GLBT community groups and businesses are like a lame dog chasing its tail around and around in circles.

    A similar spat to this occurs every few years and what an enormous bore it is to watch.

    It's EXACTLY this sort of rubbish that keeps people away in droves from assisting where help is genuinly needed.

    Get over yourselves, tuck your own (massive) egos away in your back pockets and just play nicely for once!
  • Amber  - I think the big question is......
    How much hard earned cash has OutinPerth donated to Pride?
  • Gavin McGuren
    Not really. The point of this post was to defend ourselves from allegations leveled at us by a member of the Pride committee in Out in Perth, with no offer of a right of reply and no way to respond through a letter to the editor. It's not about which individual/s lost the money or how much anyone else donates. There's no purpose or benefit in opening up a regional conflict. People are getting sidetracked.
  • Christina M  - OUT
    I would seriously question that in-kind sponsorship of such a business like OUT, and how much money a business like that actually makes off the work of a volunteer organisation like Pride and it's Festival, that stuggles with losses currently! anyone see something wrong with that scenario?
  • Agent Smith
    I like that fact that everyone is so quick to judge both Pride and GayinWA, but the question is, will anyone do anything about it? Doubtful.

    There are probably multiple people within the community who are probably better suited than the current Pride committee, no one will stand up and try to make a change because

    So before we throw stones in our glass houses lets just make sure we have really done something to contribute to the community
  • Anonymous
    You guys are crap!!!! Honestly why all this bitching!! This stupid mentality that some perth people seem to have does not allow for and growth in the LGBT community which Perth clearly desperately needs. Its mentalitys like this that make people want to leave perth for larger cities like London and Sydney!! Grow up! There is enough room for everyone!! If you actually put a good event together people will come!

  • bryan Moldon
    ps the last message was from me!
    love Bryan Moldooon Londoon!!
  • Peter  - some thoughts ...
    If an event is of enough interest to enough people in the GLBTI community then enough people will attend it to make it a success. It is as simple as that. It is totally irrelevant which organisation (Pride, GAYinWA) runs it. The real issue I think is not what events each organisation runs or when but why some events are more successful than others. This is what I believe Daniel and Gavin are saying.

    A professional and objective approach might be useful in finding the answers. Has anyone considered or conducted a survey of Pride members etc to find out what THEY specifically want? And surely not all GLBTI people want the same thing so it would seem important that diversity of offerings is provided for in such surveys as well as suggestions for formats and events. I don't think a public forum or meeting will succeed in tapping the views of the majority of GLBTI people in our community.
  • Adam Bishop
    Krystle and Alexis.
  • Brendon  - THE BIG QUESTION IS.......
    So we have heard from each side, we have read the good the bad and the just downright nasty but the big question is 'SO WHERE DO WE DO FROM HERE???????'

    I agree that New Mardi Gras may be able to help since New Mardi Gras was created out of the local community groups coming together and working together.

    Can Pride WA and Gay In WA work together to start with? and then bring in other community groups to work together as a team - only then will you achieve what the organisations name means...

    PRIDE
  • Ruth Wykes
    Is it true that OUTinPerth has no editorial and no letters to the editor? That's not possible for an independent media outlet.

    How can wide-ranging debate, opinion and information sharing occur? But if it is the case I understand why this blog lights up sometimes. People need to be able to interact with other community members, and to debate issues like this.

    If Pride is in trouble then EVERYONE who cares about the community should be debating the issues - and not pointing fingers. And if OUTinPerth has allowed a Pride committee member to use their pages to slam a local business, without offering both sides of the story… that's shocking. Does OUT benefit financially from Pride? Are they happy to sit back and let someone else put the boot in to GayinWA, and then pay for the ink?

    Surely someone from OUT reads this blog - an explanation would be good.

    But seriously - does OUT not have a letters page or editorial?
  • Jayson P
    Yes it seriously does not have either. I just looked so where else can anyone speak their mind?
  • Christina M  - No editorial or right to reply
    I can't see any letters to the editor section at all in the paper. How intriguing!?
  • Amy Henderson
    As acting editor of last month's OUTinPerth I take full responsibility for publishing Andrew's letter.

    Since moving to Perth (gee I miss you Melbourne when shit like this happens!!!) I have been on a very steep learning curve trying to keep up with the petty politics of the microcosm that is Perth's GLBT community, so you’ll have to excuse me if I am not privy to these juvenile disagreements. I am a journalist and not a community babysitter.

    Nobody ‘put the boot in to GAYinWA’ or attacked anyone by name. YOU all may think you know exactly who Andrew is referring to but if you are completely objective about this (which of course I am but nobody else seems to be) he did not mention any specific names or events. Ok, I may be criminally clueless when it comes to community infighting but I like it that way thank you very much!

    No, OUTinPerth does not have a ‘letters to the editor’ page. It has been explained to me that it was dropped because nobody ever sent any letters in (and when they did it was only used as a platform for nasty bitching… hmm funny that!!)

    Our ‘community’ page is in fact our outlet for community groups and members to air their views/publicise their events etc. ANYONE is welcome to contribute to that page and is in essence, our version of an 'editorial/opinions' page. If you read our disclaimer you will see that these views in no way reflect those of OUTinPerth.

    Andrew has a right to his opinion and so do any of the life members who think they may have been referred to in Andrew’s letter.

    As the article arrived shortly before deadline and I do not even KNOW many of these people who were apparently attacked, it was impossible for me to contact them for a response.

    I have however spoken to those I can track down and offered them a reply in our next edition.


  • Gavin McGuren
    Way to go Amy. I'm sure you've endeared yourself to many locals with that sort of condescending attitude. It's taken you until 27th January to track us down? You mean to say a "journalist" couldn't locate the owners of a public website by perhaps emailing them via the website? In fact I'm pretty certain many of your colleagues at Out in Perth could have provided you with a phone number or two. You'll have to forgive my cynicism but it sounds to me like you're making excuses after being hauled over the coals and didn't really have much choice about taking “full responsibility” for your decision.
  • Amy Henderson
    Gavin, this debate is not about OUTinPerth or me personally, its about Pride.

    I have actually been on leave and only returned to the office this week- hence my late reply to this blog and my tardiness in contacting Daniel Smith. I did however speak to Laura Foster the day after publication of the paper and when she expressed her dissapointment, offered her a right of reply.

    I'm sorry you mistook my disinterest as being condescending, it was certainly not intended.

    And I hardly think I've been 'hauled over the coals' Gavin. A few comments on a blog don't really faze me I'm afraid...
  • Amy Henderson
    Can I also, Gavin, draw attention to your previous post:

    'Can people leaving comments please remember that we published this post in order to defend ourselves by addressing matters raised by the Treasurer of Pride in Out in Perth and not to launch an attack or invite an attack on Pride or Out in Perth or anyone else. Feel free to contribute to the debate but please play the ball and not the man (or woman).'
  • Steve Reeves
    Wow , thats the most I have read in a while haha. Guys at the end of the day all of these groups are trying to have a go at putting on a great event, and they should be commended, I work away, and trust me, I would go to every gay event that is put on in Perth ,if I could. But as I and many others in Perth, a lot of us work away and all over the place, and at times , I think someone must have my roster to be able to stage all these events when Im at work. hehe But serious, from memory Fairday was held on the same day as Parklife music festival. And even if I was in town I would have gone to Parklife. Such big events like this should not clash with other such big events.I know from my facebook friends they were all trying to decide which one to go too. Hope this helps some. And good on you all for atleast having a go, Perth is quiet enough ,and with out people like you guys struggling on, it would be alot harder, especially for the younger..
  • Good point!
    Did GAYinWA stage Parklife as well?
  • Daneka  - Not proud......
    Seriously has the world gone mad? Are we all missing the meaning of Pride and community?

    While I find points from both sides valid and not in the least that outinperth is nothing more than a self perpetuating biased ego fest for some of those who produce it. But this debate - if you can call it that is not only dividing our community but also reversing years of hard fought determination to not only, become a community but to be united and accepted. On all levels.

    I think everyone agrees that the way that we annually express our "Pride" in the community needs to move forward and evolve with the times.

    We should be enjoying and embracing our new acceptance and be more focused on integrating our "Pride" with the entire Perth community as a whole.

    This "debate" as it were needs to cease. If we all focus more on answers and less on blame, one can only imagine the power, scope and creativity we could come up with.

    Never before has Perth had so much positive support from the wider community that nit picking like this reflects badly on us all.

    This is only one idea that some of us have thrown around, but it wouldn't be right to rant and rave about answers without some thought into how we all can celebrate and embrace "Pride".

    As I said, Just a thought -

    Why not incorporate Fair day and The Parade into a summer music, arts and cultural family friendly festival type event.

    We have many resources within our community when it comes to musicians and artists - Lets showcase them.

    Without neglecting the extremely important non profit community groups, associations and business that support us year round, that would normally put on a float - Give them the stage for 5 minutes.

    A rock-esteadford type dance, play or skit would no doubt let the creativity of such groups run wild and have the potential to be not only more entertaining than watching floats but also more powerful in conveying a meaningful message.

    With proper planning and support there is no reason that "Pride" could not evolve into a festival in its own right much like the ones we know and love.(Good Vibes, Southbound, Big Day Out etc).

    Of course the resources to pull such an event together successfully would not happen overnight and I would expect be at least a year in the making, fund-raising and organisation.

    Huge Stage, Musicians, Artists, Markets, appeal and advertising to the wider community, Perth cup style "Connies" and "The Court" tents. (No need for after parties - Just turn up the tunes when the sun goes down)Even the possibility of inviting commercial companies to host their own "hospitality" tent for their employee's or customers. What a great grab for some of the more conservative companies to get out of the box....

    .............................................

    “We need a new spirit of community, a sense that we are all in this together"

    End of rant!





  • Gavin McGuren
    Can people leaving comments please remember that we published this post in order to defend ourselves by addressing matters raised by the Treasurer of Pride in Out in Perth and not to launch an attack or invite an attack on Pride or Out in Perth or anyone else. Feel free to contribute to the debate but please play the ball and not the man (or woman).
  • The Blessed Mother Gretta Amye  - turf war
    It just sounds like a bit of a media TURF war for control of the Perth GLBTI community, Instead of bitching why dont all the experts join the Pride committee if your genuine about the future of our community . With all your exprenice you keep letting let us know about you could put somthing in place that will mean this disscussion wont have to take place again. Do somthing constructive instead of this media bitch session guys...
  • Gavin McGuren
    "Control of the Perth GLBTI community"? Sounds like some street war between crime barons. The GLBTI population of Perth is made up of tens of thousands of individuals who will certainly not be controlled by anyone, and rightly so, and the community will have a future regardless of this debate or any outcome of it. Once again, we wish Pride to continue doing what it does well and listen to what people (not just us) have to say, and we wish to continue with the events we do without our motives being maligned.
  • guy g  - Solutions not more problems...
    Solutions not more problems...
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Mystery Blogger
    An Open Letter From Pride
    Written by OIP Staff
    Monday, 18 January 2010
    name
    Pride Treasurer
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    A question - was this article solicited by OIP or did PRIDE seek to have this article published ?

    Unsure of Pride WA Inc. position and procedures in terms of open media in the GLBTI (etc) communities or any other media outlet ?

    I think a letter from PRIDE WA Inc. might have been a better practice rather than from one committee member, and any major article which possibly maligns needs to be approved by the entire committee (Co-Presidents) before publication.

    It is unfortunate that this article appeared with no possible response from people who have been accused in the article ... hence this post; and it is only the second day of this post !

    A possible SOLUTION - PRIDE WA Inc. review media procedures and a structure is put in place to avoid this occurring in the FUTURE !

    A suggestion OIP solicit a response from life members of Pride and and possibly a second article from the entire PRIDE WA Inc. committee or the Co-Presidents as a clarification of these matters.

    Guy G
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